Shave Ready but not Poppin' Hair Ready!:(

Dear Fellow Razorheads-Recieved two nice razors today- a Jahn's Jewelers and an anonymous yellow scaled razor via EBay.Paid around $24.00 for the former and $15.00 for the later. No chips and no rust!:) Tried using just the Naniwa 12K on the no name razor, but had to go back to 4K on both. Did 40 circular strokes on 4K plus around 10 straight and 10 diagonal strokes. Did the thumbnail test at this stage and both were grabbing the nail:) Then did the same on 8K and 12 K Naniwa, except no more thumbnail tests! Followed with 30 or so on the felt strop and then 60 or so on my 3" Big Daddy. Although both will shave, they are not hair poppin' sharp. VERY leary of over honing and definitely no wire edge on either using the 30X Eye Loupe. Any ideas here? Great forum!:)-Gearhead

After the TNT you should return to the stone you were on to repair any damage (like de-beveling) done by the TNT.

As for the distinction between 'shave ready' and 'poppin' hair ready', I just don't buy it. Shave ready should be pretty darn sharp.

If you are getting good shaves I really wouldn't worry about it not popping hair.

Now mind you I am new to honing.

Best I can do with my full hollows is(now mind you I have fine hair on my head) is get a beautiful violin off of my 12k SS,

after 40/100 on the strop I get what I will call a #4 HHT, I can very carefully rest the hair on it but the moment I move it cuts and does not jump.

I do not seem to get the same on any of my heavier grinds but they shave great so I am satisfied.

So although it can be a gauge it is not the end all be all.

Dear Fellow Razorheads-Thank you all for the quick replies! So the Thumbnail test is not a good test at 1K? If not, then what is? Going to hop on my moto-bike and clear my head for a bit:)-Gearhead

No that is when the TNT is used. But once you use that test and pass the common thing to do is to do 5 - 10 more laps on the 1k to correct any damage that occurred from the test.

I shave my arm hair off for testing at 1K and 4K. Beyond that I shave with it as the final test.

I have not heard of that maker....maybe a P.O.S. razor that is not able to hold an edge. Hey just my 2 cents

Actually the TNT can do more damage after the 4K stone than after the 1K stone because the edge has been refined and is somewhat more fragile. Returning to the 4K for more strokes would be required than if the test were done following the 1K. I'd personally go with from 10 to 20 passes, but then I don't ever do the TNT after the 4K for just that reason.

Maybe I should just stop the thrumbnail test. Seems like it does more damage than it's worth!:(-Gearhead

I've never done the TNT nor the Hanging hair , or whatever it's called.
I'm with SteelStuble , smooth arm hair shave at 1000, the the next test is on the face.

Keep in mind that there are Two "Uses" for the TNT,

1. It lets you know the bevel is completly set from Stem to Stern..

2. On Finicky, Chippy, or Restored razors, it makes sure to get rid of any roughness on the edge, then you reset, and start with an even smooth bevel... (Basically it acts much like "Killing" the edge without actually killing the edge)

We all have "tests" we use perhaps, but I never use any test that puts the edge against a more formidable adversary than its intended purpose (said another way, razors cut hair, so I never test an edge on anything tougher than hair)

If anyone cares, all my tests involve hair (usually arm hair). At various points in the process the blade behaves differently. We all perhaps identify different metrics for how a blade should behave with our arm hair after each step. I am not a fan of TNT test for razors as I find it damaging to the edge.

Have fun identifying your own metrics for honing progress. One thing we al agree on for the most part is the final metric (face shave) ;)

Dear Hirlau, GSixgun and Unit-Again, thank you all for the quick and detailed responses. The main problem with Arm (and leg!) hair is that you only have so much of it!;) Will start getting wierd looks from coworkers if I shave any more off!;) I agree about the face shave being the best test, but typically that involves a wait for me, as I don't hone in the AM. Has to do more with my evening shift hours than anything else:(-Gearhead

The TNT along with TPT,HHT,arm hair, leg hair, and any other test all have there places you just have to find what works for you and calibrate them to you.

For what is worth your thread kinda got on to a TNT kick but I don't think that is why you can't pop hair.

It might also depend on how one defines "pops hairs"

In some of the dark circles of sharpening enthusiasts we say popping hairs is a sign that it could be much sharper. If the hair pops it is because the blade catches it, but won't cut it until pressure builds then the hair "pops" and launches as the stretched hair shaft rebounds.

By contrast, if the hair cuts effortlessly and just drops and piles up in front of the blade, it is arguably sharper because its not loading the hair shaft prior to cutting. Think about the old Zoro films where he swipes the sword across the candles and they don't move, then he blows the cut candles over with a burst of breath...fiction, but intended to demonstrate how sharp his blade was.

What I'm getting at is the concept that when the blade gets REALLY sharp, it may cut the hair and you don't even realize it unless your eye recognizes what is happening.

This it one reason I like to test with one hair at a time. I pick a single hair on the arm and carefully watch it as I test. I do this on several portions of the blade to assess uniformity.

Have fun and enjoy the ride.

I have to agree with all those who test on hair. I use the thumbnail tests on my knives, but not razors.
I really like the idea of testing on one hair at a time and will start using that.

The TNT is perfectly serviceable for bevel recognition after 1K. When I use it I do so very gently. After 1K, I slide the edge gently along the wet thumbnail. If it just slides easily, the bevel is not established. If there is resistance as I move it across the thumbnail, then I know I have reason to believe the bevel is set. I follow this with a minimum of ten more passes on the 1K because of possible slight dulling by the TNT.

When I first started I was a bit disheartened because though my razors shaved well they didn't cut armhair above skin level, which newbs were told was a sure sign of a shave ready blade. How could my razors be shave ready if they don't cut armhair mid-air? Later, all my blades were able to perform this feat (still do :)), and it dawned on me that it had nothing to do with honing, it was my stropping that had drastically improved. Actually, stropping can be the culprit in many situations. Think your blade is dull and needs hone work? Try a good round of stropping and you'll probably find the blade is fine.

Just another perspective....

Thanx again guys, esp. irish,ace and Ryan82! I have to stop using the thumbnail test and stay away from the Golden Moneky,as I think it's doing more harm than good. Strange that it shaves hairs well but drags on my face-go figure! At least I have enough inexpensive quality razors to sharpen! Gotta grow more arm hair though!;)-Gearhead222